Kajukenbo Okayama: Tell us about yourself.
Angelo Ferrer: My name’s Angelo Ferrer. I’m a Kajukenbo instructor, 3rd degree black belt, and podcast host. I grew up in Escondido, in San Diego County (California). Currently, I also run an English program and my own English school out in Kasaishi, Japan. I got my master's in psychology, with a focus on psycholinguistics and I created an English program that was based off of my thesis.
I also recently opened an MMA gym and physical fitness training center. The name of the Kajukenbo team is Kajukenbo Hyogo, Japan, and the name of the gym is Level Up Gym. Pronounced in (Japanese) katakana “レベルアップジム” (“Leberu Appu Jimu”). Good luck spelling that, ’cause I still can’t spell that right in katakana. (Laughing)
I’d done a lot of stuff throughout the years before I came out to Japan, including private security and some bodyguard work.
KO: What was that like?
Ferrer: As a bodyguard I had a client who was really big in the software industry - she was one of the higher ups on the team that made Everquest (an online multiplayer rpg video game). This was between 2002 to as late as 2006.
My job was to make sure, if she felt uncomfortable, or even if she got bum rushed by too many people, to get her out safely.
That was the most I ever had to do there. I never had to hit anyone. It was nothing compared to the security job I did for a punk rock club. That was...a LOT more hands on. (Laughing)
From left to right, back row: Jeremy Nelson, Dan Mercado, Mike Shaw, Angelo Ferrer, Josh Gordon. Middle and front row: Unknown, Adria Shaw, Professor Ronnie Isaguirre, Johnny Alexander Isaguirre, Larry Gordan, Dade Nelson, Rudy Isaguirre.
Circa 2005. Photo credit unknown.
KO: Tell me more about your history with fighting.
Ferrer: I grew up in a rough neighborhood where there was a lot of gang violence, and my parents tried to shelter me from all that by putting me in home studies, so I never left the house. My parents were always very worried about me hanging out with anyone. For several reasons.
One of them being the gang violence and the type of neighborhood we were in, another one being that my parents, specifically my mother, was a fundamentalist Christian. Her particular religious belief was that I should not associate with people that were from outside of our church.
The reason she was like that was because my parents came from Puerto Rico, and in Puerto Rico there’s a lot of violence. Being in religion for them protected them from that violence.
So I spent a lot of my time kind of sheltered from what was going on outside. Not “sheltered” as in not knowing…all I had to do was look out the window to see people jumping people and shooting each other…but knowing that it was too dangerous out there to go wander.
But I knew one day I was gonna have to face it. And my dad knew too.
When I was in elementary, they put me in a public school that was outside of our district, that didn’t have the gang problem…but I was still in a real weird religion. (Laughing) That gave people a different reason to pick on me.
A lot of kids hated me right off the bat, and I immediately had a lot of people hating on me, wanting to beat me up.
Because of that my dad was like “You know, you’re having people call you names, and push you around…I’m gonna show you some basics. How to throw a punch, how not to get yourself hurt.”
He loved boxing. He didn’t watch boxing because it was against their religious beliefs, but before he joined the religion, he had loved boxing. He wasn’t even a “boxer” by any means, but he knew how to take care of himself…’cause, you know, he came from Puerto Rico. (Laughing)
Angelo Ferrer with his daughter Anna Okada Ferrer in 2017. "One of my goals in life was to walk and have my dad be there at the ceremony. Another goal was for my dad to meet his grandchild. Cancer took him before he could see either of these things, but I still accomplished them and I'm sure he's smiling.”
My mom was like “If anybody pushes you, you run, you go to a teacher.” After she left the room, my dad was like “Yes…if someone pushes you, you should run and tell the teacher. But if somebody hits you, you need to hit them harder. And then go tell a teacher.” ’Cause if you let someone hit you once, they’re going to hit you every day.
I understood there was a balance there. But then he said “Don’t tell your mom I said that.” (Laughing)
My dad would also say “Don’t start something you don’t finish. If you hit someone, you make sure they are done.” That’s what he kind of put into me.
My first fight was when I was about 8. Sure enough, a kid sucker punched me. After he sucker punched me I grabbed him by the shoulder and I just gave him a straight jab. He hit the ground. Then I remembered everything my Dad said. “After you finish it, then go run and tell the teacher.” So I did.
That was my first fight. It turned out all right but I still got pulled out of public school by my parents.
KO: What was your first exposure to the martial arts?
Ferrer: I had a cousin named David who went to public school. He told me he'd heard about my fight. Now, my other cousins and my friends were scared of David because he was always getting into fights. He was a year older than me, he was 9, he went to public school, near where we lived with all the gangs. He was constantly fighting gang members, fighting off getting jumped…he had friends who were in the gangs, but he wasn’t in a gang himself. Still, he’d already gained a reputation amongst the gang members as a fighter.
And David told me “Hey, I heard you got in your first fight.” And he’s like “I love fighting.”
And I’m like “I know man. Everyone’s really scared of you because you like fighting.” (Laughing)
And he was like “No no no! Have you ever heard of Bruce Lee? “
And I’m like “Bruce who?”
He’s like “You gotta check ’im out man! It’s like karate and whatever man.”
I’m like “…Alright…”
So I saw some clips of a Bruce Lee movie that he had. I was like “Man, that guy’s badass. Look at him fight all those guys.” He’s like fighting 5 on 1, he’s taking on all the kinds of people I see in my hood. He’s getting jumped and essentially defending himself.
Then my cousin said “Hey we should spar.” I’m like “What’s sparring?”
“It’s kinda like light contact, we don’t really hurt each other, but we kind of fight.” And I’m like “I don’t know man. You like fighting but I don’t wanna fight anyone.”
“Come on, we’ll try it, and it’ll be fun.”
So he showed me how to throw a few kicks and whatnot, and we just did some light contact sparring.
After we were done, my mom found out and got pissed. She said “No more hanging out with your cousin! He’s a bad influence!”
So I went on a hiatus, didn’t spar with David for a long time. But I secretly sparred with a yellow belt, a friend of mine who did Tae Kwon Do.
One time he just said “Hey, you wanna practice Tae Kwon Do?” I’m like “What’s that?” “It’s kinda like karate.” “Okay, cool.”
Angelo representing Gracie Barra in Japan, 2019.
Photo credit unknown.
KO: After you got pulled out of school, you didn't have to worry about fights, right?
Ferrer: Well, at that point I was about 10 or 11. Then time went by, my parents got divorced, my mom moved and could no longer afford to stay home, so I had to go back to public school. And that’s when shit really started hitting the fan.
That second school was rough. The first school had been nice. I'd been getting picked on for the religious stuff, but this new school had the gang problem. On top of the fact that they didn’t like me because of the religious stuff, they were really upset about the fact that I was not from around that area. I was from the other side of town, which was a different jurisdiction as far as the gangs’ control went.
The only thing that made me lucky was that it turned out my cousin went to the same school - the one I used to spar with, David. So he was like “Hey man, you’re gonna be coming to my school, so we should probably spar.” And I was like “Aaa….alright.” But I didn’t really take him seriously on the offer.
I started school. And maybe two weeks in I got into my first fight there. This big kid was calling me names in Spanish, he kept calling me a mallate, which is the “N” word in Spanish, ’cause I have curly hair. And they all could tell I wasn’t Mexican but I spoke Spanish. That really made ’em weirded out by me. He also called me a joto, which is a really strong word for a homosexual.
I was a little older, but I still went off this idea that unless this person actually attacks me, I’m not in the right to hit or hurt anyone. So, I didn’t respond to it, which is not really what you’re supposed to do with gang violence. You have to respond to them. You can’t just ignore them, ’cause then they feel disrespected. You have to at least recognize that you’re being talked to.
So then they said “What, fool, you think you’re better than us?” The big guy stepped up, blocked my path down the hallway, and said “What, you think you can take me?”
I’m like “Man, I don’t want any problems. I just wanna get to my class.” Then they started circling around me, and I’m like “These guys are getting ready to jump me.” The bell rang, all the kids went to their classes, and we’re just outside in this area where teachers can’t see us, and I’m about to get jumped.
Since the kids are all scrambling to their classes, I figured “I’m gonna take a quick shot, and I’m just gonna hit this guy as hard as I can in the stomach, and I’m gonna run to the classroom.”
He says “You think you can take me?” And I’m like “You’re bigger than me man. What are you talking about?” And he goes “Yeah, I am bigger than you. I’ll let you have the first shot.” I’m like “…Alright.” (Laughing)
I punched him in the stomach as hard as I could and knocked the wind out of him. He fell over, he created a path, and I ran right down that open path before they could jump me and I ran inside the classroom.
Then everybody at school started talking, “Aw, did you hear that Angelo knocked out Fernando?” “Yeah, I can’t believe it, yadda yadda…” And I’m like “Oh, shit.”
But none of the teachers found out. There was just so much gang violence that…a small scrap, they didn’t really capitalize on, because of the stabbings and shootings going on. A small fight was not a big deal to them.
Another week went by, and now people were giving me pats on the back. There were people that wanted to be in that gang, my cousin knew people that were in the gang, and people in the gang all started walking up to me and saying “Hey man, you did a good job. You showed him what’s up, blah blah blah.” And I was like “That’s cool and all, but that’s not what I’m into.”
The next week at lunch time, the same group of kids walk up to me.
The guy I punched says “I just wanna say, I wanna give you mad respect. I told you you can have the first shot, and you took it. Let’s just start all over again. I’m like “Alright, cool. Let’s start all over again.”
“Hey uh, we want you to join our crew.” And I’m like “Ahg. I’m not really trying to join anything, you know. I appreciate it, but I’m not here for that.” And he said “That’s cool. That’s cool, I respect that. Either way, if you wanna hang out with us, that’s cool. Right now, me and my friends are gonna play a game of tag. You wanna play tag with us?”
I’m like “Okay, cool. I’ll play tag.”
“Alright, cool. You’re it!” And they all start running. I’m chasing ‘em, we’re playing tag now. I’m thinking I won these guys over, we’re friends. But really what they did was the old tactic of what a coyote does to a dog. They lured me away into an area where there was no cameras, no teachers. I was chasing one of ’em behind one of the buildings, and I go up into a clearing. We’re behind all the buildings in a construction site.
As I come out of the hall, out of the corridor, they’re all waiting for me. They’re all circling me.
I’m like “Aw, fuck. I’m such a fucking idiot. This is…they’re gonna jump me.”
Angelo teaching at Kajukenbo Okayama's Six-Hour Workout in Okayama City, Japan.
June, 2019.
So I look and I think “Okay. Who can I take.” I look at the circle surrounding me. I’m surrounded by like 8 kids. Ages 12 to 15. And I’m thinking “Well I’m definitely gonna get beat up. So right now the goal…the goal is to try to take out as many as I can so that when they do start beating me they have less people to beat me with. And if I can, I’m gonna try and run back into the corridor that they’re blocking.” ’Cause they surrounded me with 8 guys and put 2 guys on the escape route to make sure I couldn’t get away.
So the smallest guy that was there…I punched him as hard as I could and I knocked him out. Then the 2nd guy…I grabbed him and I kneed him in the groin. The third guy I grabbed, but then I felt someone hit me in the back of the head. Then I hit the ground and I’m like “Aw, here it comes. I’m gonna cover the back of my head so I don’t get stomped too much.” And they all start stomping me on the ground.
I got kicked in the mouth, kicked in the face…there was dust everywhere…and then I noticed out of the corner of my eye…a giant hand came over one of the guys and pulled him back. I see a clearing. I step up and I step into the clearing. And I see a friend of mine named Victor.
Victor was a funny guy. He was “slow”. Back in the day we called these people mentally retarded, but nowadays we don’t say that. He was a special needs student. He was 16.
He was a man. (Laughing) He had a “man” body. He had a mustache. He had facial hair. And we were a bunch of kids.
Victor lived in the same apartment complex as me. Me and him and his stepdad would play flag football sometimes.
So either way, Victor grabs one of the guys and knocks him off. One of the other guys comes over and Victor turns around and front kicks him right in the face. I’m like “This guy knows…this guy know karate or something…” Whatever, I didn’t really have time to think. We’re still fighting.
So I just get back to back with Victor to make sure no one sucker punches him. Me and Victor just start fighting off the other 8 guys, until they all kind of give up and run away.
Turns out Victor was a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do. Then he told me “Yeah man, you gotta be careful.”
Angelo and some of his ESL students, 2014.
So me and Victor start sparring at home, and Victor knows my cousin David. In fact, David’s been sparring with him. So we start creating these sparring sessions. I was like 12. That really ignited the fire, after being jumped…I realized I really had to take my cousin and this whole sparring thing seriously.
I had kinda brushed it off, thinking I could get through it all by just taking care of myself and not relying on others but I realized I had to create my own community outside of the gangs to fight ’em off. So that’s how the whole “fight club in the backyard” mentality started for us.
Victor talked to his step-dad, he told him what happened, and his step-dad said it was cool: once a week, we’d meet at our apartment complex on the grass…turned out we were neighbors…sometimes my cousin would show up. And we’d just spar. We didn’t even have any sparring gear. We just had an agreement that we weren’t gonna hit each other too hard, and otherwise it was anything goes. We were getting ready for being jumped, so…
KO: What were the sparring rules like?
Ferrer: It was light contact sparring with take downs, and ground and pound, and submissions. We didn’t actually know what submissions were…we just thought they were pro-wrestling moves.
Anyway, I was more into boxing. One time I told David “I think boxing is a stronger style than that karate shit.” And David was like “Alright, we’ll see.”
So we square off, and and he’s kinda dodging my hits, and I come in for a hook, and he ducks it and sidekicks me. He knocks all the wind out of me. I’m sitting there in pain like “There’s something up with this karate stuff.”
I asked him “Where’d you pick that up?” And he started telling me “Bruce Lee movies, The Tao of Jeet Kun Do…the library has a whole bunch of books on martial arts. You should read ’em.”
So now every week I’m at the library, and I start picking up books on Judo, Wing Chun, Jeet Kun Do, just reading and reading and reading and reading. I checked out some real traditional Kung Fu books, like books on Hung Gar, some really badly translated books…but I was looking at the pictures and saying “Okay, so that’s how you kick, and that’s how you punch, and that’s how you do a take down.”
Dan Mercado, Shizu Alan Abad, and Angelo circa 2008.
Photo credit unknown.
KO: How'd you end up in Kajukenbo circles?
Ferrer: I went to a party. I was in a band, and my friends would ask me to play at their parties and stuff, and that’s what I was doing. Coincidentally, this was a friend that had dislocated my knee a couple years before. (Laughing)
At the time, my leg was better, I’d been sparring. I was looking for a place to train, but I was kind of dojo-hopping and I couldn’t really find a good place. Every place I went just focused on forms. I’d come in for the free trial lesson, spar their guys, and if no one could beat me in sparring I’d just walk away.
Before the party starts, there’s this kid in the front yard doing these punches and kicks. I ask him what he’s doing and he’s like “I’m doing Kajukenbo!” I’m thinking “This kid’s cool.” (Laughing)
He goes “Yeah, my dad teaches Kajukenbo.” What’s Kajukenbo? “It’s like Karate, and Judo, and Kempo, and Boxing…” I’m thinking that sounds pretty neat. Like a mixed martial art. Right on. He goes “My dad’s gonna be here later.”
My friend hears this and says “Yeah, his dad, man, he teaches a pretty legit martial art. You should talk to him when he comes.”
Ends up his dad was Professor Ronnie Isaguirre, who was just “Sifu” Isaguirre at the time. Sifu comes to the party a little later, and I see him sitting there with one of his brown belts, Mike Shaw…who is now a Sigung, I think. I didn’t know he was a brown belt at the time. I meet them, I start chatting with them. I ask him “What style do you teach?” And he’s like “It’s Kajukenbo.” Well what’s…what’s Kajukenbo?
He says “You see that tree over there?” Yeah. “I can jump up, rip a branch off that tree, and whoop your ass with it.” I look at him, ‘cause I thought he was joking. And I laugh. Then I look over at his brown belt, Big Mike. Big Mike is like 6’2”, two hundred something-odd pounds. Big Mike looks at me with this serious look on his face and just nods his head.
A second later I’m thinking “This guy’s not…joking…” (Laughing) “He’s serious. I should probably be careful how I talk to this guy.”
I’m like “Alright, alright, cool.” And he says “Yeah, come to the studio. You can spar.” I’m like “Really? I don’t have to sign a contract?” He’s like “Nah, nah, nah. Just come to the studio. We have fight nights every Friday.” I’m like “Alright, cool.”
Angelo with his instructor, Professor Ronnie Isaguirre, 2018.
So I go to their class, and we start sparring. It was everything I wanted it to be. It was really intense, the training was really hard, and I really liked it. Sifu was sharing the space with a Tae Kwon Do studio and I immediately noticed the difference between the Tae Kwon Do students and the Kajukenbo students. The guys in the white gis and the guys in the black gis.
When I was sparring the Tae Kwon Do students, I was thinking “These guys really don’t know how to fight. Like, they got some moves, but they have no idea how to defend themselves against punches.” But when I fought the Kajukenbo guys I thought “These guys fight like me.”
I used to do a lot of Bruce Lee footwork. A lot of side step footwork, kinda mimicking how Bruce Lee would fight, with my lead fist in front, throwing a lot of back fists and side kicks. And when I saw his brown belt, Mike, fighting, I saw him using the same style. And I’m like “Oh shit…that’s the same way I fight.”
So finally the time comes, and they give us a choice to pick our next partner, and I immediately point at Mike. I just saw him beat up two other people, I said “I wanna fight him.” (Laughing)
When I fought him, it was the first time in my life where I sparred someone and I couldn’t touch him. No matter what I did, I couldn’t touch him. He literally clowned me the first minute. Every attack, every punch, every kick I threw, he dodged and counter attacked. Dodged again, and counter attacked even harder.
And I could tell that he was going easy on me. He wasn’t knocking me out. He was playing with me. I was being toyed with. And I’d never had that happen. Ever. None of the street fights went that way. It was always pretty even. This was the first time I literally felt outclassed. I thought “They got something to teach me here, and I’m gonna stay.”
And that’s how I got into Kajukenbo.
Participants of Kajukenbo Okayama's Six-Hour Workout in June, 2019.
KO: What's it like teaching Kaju in Japan?
Ferrer: As you and I talked about before (on Angelo's podcast, Social Gelo) I've recently been looking into the marketing, trying to figure out how I'm going to market Kajukenbo.
I'm not trying to make money, but I've been trying to see how I'm gonna get people interested in Kajukenbo in my area, in a place where there’s not a lot of English speaking people…maybe 3 or 4.
It’s really difficult to market the idea of a mixed martial art to Japanese people, which is what Kajukenbo is. People (in Japan) don’t even know what Jiu-jutsu is. People know what “Judo” is, but our style of grappling is so different from Judo, and when we do a basic (traditional) punch combination and we say “you get out of the way, you block, kick ‘em in the groin…” the Judo guys go “What?! You kick him where?!”
“That’s not Judo!”
So either I have to market to them as “Kickboxing”, or I have to pick one of the parts to market to them.
I have a friend in China that I trained with, Ramsey Dewey. I saw how he marketed his program in China, and he had the same challenges. In China, no one knew what MMA was. People would come in and they either wanted to do boxing or they wanted to do kickboxing, or they wanted to do wrestling…“grappling”. They didn’t even know what jiu-jutsu was.
Ramsey's background was originally Tae Kwon Do, later kickboxing, and then later he transitioned to MMA. He’s also studied Chinese styles as well. But the way he marketed it was he grabbed the Chinese stuff and just sold it as “flexibility and movement” with yoga. He knew that saying to Chinese people that he teaches Wu Shu or Tai Chi…he knew they were immediately going to say “That’s not Tai Chi”.
“How are you, a white guy from Idaho, gonna come here and tell me how to do Kung Fu?”
So he knew better than to tell them that. He just said “flexibility and movement”. And when they asked he’d say “Well, it’s kind of like yoga.” And then for that class, he pretty much makes people stretch and do pilates and Wu Shu. (Laughing.)
Angelo with Ramsey Dewey in Shanghai, China, 2018.
He has a “kickboxing” class. But when you go in there and start doing it, you realize that the kickboxing is kind of kickboxing for MMA. He’s doing “kickboxing” but then he’s doing a take down. And when they say “Wait a second, that’s not kickboxing…” he says “Oh. No, this is more of the Sanda.” Because in China they have “Sanda” (a Chinese version of kickboxing) and in Sanda they allow the take down. He never says "Muay Thai".
So they’re like “Okay, we can kind of wrap our head around the idea that he’s kind of teaching us a style of Sanda.” And then that all kinda gets put into hig MMA class, along with some Tai Chi, Wu Shu, Muay Thai…
So I'm kind of following that lead. I still say “Kajukenbo”, I have my certificate on the wall, I’m an MMA fighter, I explain to them what that is. then I ask them questions, and the answers are often the same.
“Do you know what MMA is?” No. “Do you know what Jiu-jutsu is?” No. “Okay. Do you know what kickboxing is?” Yes. “Alright, it’s kind of like kickboxing.”
And some of the people that are joining the gym, they just want to exercise. They aren't even interested in martial arts training. So to them I said “Okay. You said you wanted to get in shape, right? Have you ever seen a professional fighter that’s in bad shape?” No. “Exactly. So, I am going to train you like a fighter to get you into good shape. I don’t expect you to fight anyone, you don’t have to.”
Then I have Kajukenbo students that accept the fact I teach Kajukenbo, and we do Kajukenbo.
KO: Tell us about your podcast, Social Gelo.
Ferrer: The podcast has been around since March, 2016. Originally, it was to be a podcast about psychology, also covering topics including martial arts and…basically anything. When I first started the podcast, I was open to interviewing anyone about anything. And I still am.
But this year I started the Kajukenbo series, so this year’s been more Kajukenbo focused.
The Kajukenbo Family Tree facebook page allowed me to start posting my interviews, and apparently that’s been getting a lot more attention from the Kajukenbo community. More than I truly anticipated.
This morning, when I interviewed David Tavares (Author of “Black Robe: The Kempo/Kajukenbo Connection"), he was mentioning that he saw the self defense video you and I did, the one in the parking lot. He was like “Yeah man, I’ve heard about you. I’ve been following you for awhile now.” And I didn’t realize… (Laughing)
In the interviews I’m using tools I learned in psychology to have open dialogue and have honest communication. A lot of this comes from Carl Rogers, a psychologist I look up to. He called it Person-Centered Therapy. Essentially it’s about talking to people and being your genuine self and encouraging people to be their genuine selves.
KO: Where do you hope to go with your podcast?
Ferrer: At first I wanted to go on to Kajukenbo and then move on to more people, and I guess I’m doing that. But...what I realized I’d like to do this year, after watching the Bruce Lee documentary, “I Am Bruce Lee”…something just still rings in my head: Shannon Lee saying “No one knew what Kajukenbo was.” Her words. Quote unquote.
She said it nicely in the documentary, but she used those exact words in a podcast with Daniele Bolelli, an author, history professor, martial artist, and a podcaster…he’s been on the Joe Rogan podcast. This is a guy who knows the history with Ed Parker and Kajukenbo.
So Shannon Lee used those exact words. “No one knew what Kajukenbo was.” It’s funny, because Bolelli stepped in and...I'm paraphrasing, but he’s like “Uh…you wanna be careful with that. Those are some hard guys you’re talking about.”
Anyway, I want to take what she said about Kajukenbo, and prove otherwise.
Fabian Montreal, Angelo, and Angelo's mma coach, Masa San, 2017.
KO: Are there any martial artists or fighters that you look up to used to look up to?
Ferrer: Bruce Lee. I hate to say it because it sounds so cliché, but yeah, Bruce Lee. And he wasn’t a fighter. The more I got into it, the more I realized he wasn’t really a fighter. He was more of a philosopher.
My cousin David, who I mentioned earlier…he was heavily influenced by Bruce Lee. He was the one who said “Watch these movies…it’s none of that fake shit” as he put it. When I saw those movies, it really inspired me to train, to actually have respect for the martial arts.
Fighters, actual fighters that step into the ring…Anderson Silva. If I had to pick a UFC fighter that I looked up to, it would be him. The way he composed himself, the way he communicated with people.
I really wanna say that I look up to Chuck Liddell because he’s one of our Kajukenbo guys, but as far as his actual style it was not really my style. Just being aggressive and coming in really strong, that’s not really the way I fight.
Before I knew Silva was around, he was brought to my attention because people saw me fighting and said “You gotta watch this guy (Silva) fight. He reminds me of you.”
But of course I can’t go on without mentioning my Sifu (Ronnie Isaguirre) and Sifu Mike Shaw. And because of Mike Shaw, Roy Jones, Jr.
Angelo sparring Mike Shaw, circa 2009.
Photo credit unknown.
Jones in his prime and the way Mike Shaw fought was similar. Shaw was a grand champion in point sparring, but he also whips ass in mma. The way he moved…he’s a big guy, lean, about 210 pounds…he’s a big dude…he’s over 6’2, 6’3. You would think a big, tall guy like that would use more Muay Thai, something that would execute the strength of being able to just come in and pound you.
But he used Roy Jones, Jr.’s style. Jones would…they would say this was cocky, but…he really relied on his reflexes and would purposefully bring his hands down, bob his head in front of his opponent, and as the opponent tries to hit him, he would bring his head around and counter attack. He’d do this over and over and over again. He really mastered that style of boxing.
I didn't know that, and I was up against the wall with Mike Shaw, trying to figure out how I’d fight him. It was like trying to catch water in mid air. He was just really smart at making you come after him and counter attacking you the whole time.
So I started watching videos of how Roy Jones, Jr. lost. The way he finally started losing was he fought against people that knew he was gonna bait them by bringing his head down. Once I figured that out, there were these matches where Mike and I'd both do the baiting thing.
We’d both put our hands down and start putting our heads out…and everyone watching it was like “Is Angelo making fun of Mike?”
I wasn’t making fun of him. But I realized that the people who beat Roy Jones, Jr. started copying his style. Putting their hands down, purposefully leaving themselves open.
What that would do is that frustrated Mike. He also stopped doing it as much, because he realized it wasn’t working the way he wanted to work it. It made him work another style that was a little more manageable.
This all made me a better martial artist. He’s always been an influence. Besides Sifu (Isaguirre), he was the first person I sparred. Sifu could beat me and I’d say he was a good instructor, but they say if you wanna see how good an instructor is, look at their students. Sifu Mike (who was a brown belt at the time) was his student. And seeing him move like that was a big influence on me. He’s not famous, but in my book he’s number 1. (Laughing)
KO: Is there any advice you have for Kajukenbo practitioners or martial artists in general?
Ferrer: First, I have advice for people who have never done martial arts, because this is important. I’ve been interviewing lots of people, lots of martial artists, people that do mma, a lot of Kajukenbo guys…I ask them the same question you’re asking me. One thing I’m seeing is a solid narrative.
And that is to definitely shop around. Check out several different places, different styles. You never know what it is you’re looking for if you’ve never tried it. If you’ve never done any martial art, the last thing you want is someone who sells you on you something. Meet a lot of people, talk to different martial artists.
What are your goals? Why are you training in martial arts? For self defense? Do you want to get healthy? Do you want to become a professional fighter? You need to know what your end goal is. If you don’t know why you want to train, you can go on in, but that’s a question you’re gonna eventually have to answer.
Once you answer that question, it’ll be easier to figure out what style you need to reach that goal.
Second, make sure you like the instructor. Make sure he/she meshes well with you. The instructor could be a famous coach, or the best UFC recommended coach, but if you don’t like him, if you don’t get along with him, if you feel he’s an asshole, and he’s just not meshing with your personality type, then things just aren’t gonna work. You might learn a few techniques from him/her, but eventually that’s gonna come up and you’re gonna have a problem. Make sure you like the instructor and you like their teaching style.
Third, once you’ve found those first two, don’t quit. Don’t give up. If you found a martial art that you really like, if you’ve found a school that matches your goal, if you found that coach that you mesh well with…train there, don’t stop training. Life might interfere…take breaks, do what you need to do, but don’t stop. Keep going.
If you have to move to another area, find out who people recommend. See if you can find someone in the same style or at least find someone who can meet those first two qualities. But don’t stop your training.
Professor Isaguirre with Angelo's cousin, David Ferrer, circa 2014.
Addressing Kajukenbo practitioners: I love you all. You are all my ohana (family). Don’t forget that we all are ohana. It doesn’t matter where or how you found Kajukenbo, who you trained under, whether or not they trained directly under Sijo Emperado…it doesn’t matter what piece of paper is behind that all. Once you have your Kajukenbo black belt, you are all ohana. Let go of whatever else is keeping you from treating other people as ohana.
Ohana means family. That’s what I was taught. That’s why I love this martial art, because we’re all family. Brothers and sisters and cousins and uncles…we fight. We take it out on the mat, on the streets sometimes, but at the end of the day we’re all ohana. We get back together and we don’t lose that feeling.
Also, Kajukenbo: Karate, Judo, Jiu-jutsu, Kenpo/Kung Fu, Boxing…if you are missing any of those, ask yourself why. Try to make that balance. It’s only gonna make you a better fighter. Don’t be scared to try something new. Whether you’re more focused on Karate, and you don’t wanna go to the ground, because you feel that “one strike, one kill” is the only way, don’t neglect your Judo and Jiu-jutsu. If you started from a Judo/Jiu-jutsu background, and you’re scared to get hit in the face, don’t neglect your boxing.
Don’t neglect the whole aspect of Kajukenbo.
Mike Shaw, Professor Isaguirre, and Angelo, circa 2010.
KO: Usually I end with that question, but I have one more question for you. Is there anything you want to say to Shannon Lee?
Ferrer: Oh shit. (Laughing).
I got nothing against Shannon Lee. Shannon, I have nothing against you. You’re the carrier of your father’s legacy, you’re very protective of that. And I respect that.
I lost my father too. I know what it’s like to lose your father. You feel like you have this tremendous burden on your shoulders to live up to some sort of legacy. I understand that, and I respect that. I understand why you might even become defensive of certain aspects of martial arts.
I just hope you understand what I’m doing. I’m not dissing your father. I’ve mentioned that your father really influenced me in my martial arts path.
At the same time, you gotta remember you’re dealing with the martial arts community, a community that you even admitted you don’t fully understand ’cause you’re not a martial artist. And I really hope you remember that part of your father’s legacy is how you treat other martial artists, because he was a martial artist.
And I hope that you can continue to live his legacy with respect to other martial artists that are still part of what your father was trying to put out there. We’re doing the same thing. We have our legacies that we’re trying to live, and that we’re trying to put out there too.
It’s not to take away from or disrespect the legacy your father had. It’ll only add to his legacy.
Grandmaster Charles Gaylord (Kajukenbo) with Bruce Lee at the International Karate Championships in Los Angeles, California, in 1964.
Check out Angelo's school, Kajukenbo Hyogo Japan, at 425 青野町 Kasai, 6752413 (on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/kajukenbojapan/), and listen in on his podcast, Social Gelo: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN29CePgJUwmz-J8QAaJie3kUVZ28a4uY.