Kajukenbo Okayama: Tell us about yourself.
Mickey Lopez: My name is Mickey Lopez. I was born and raised in San Leandro, California. I’ve always been a Bay Area native - I’ve been here for the past 43 years. I got my bachelor’s degree in graphic design. I worked in the Silicon Valley for about 15 or 20 years, and I hated it. I was working behind a desk, I was unhappy, I was working a lot of hours for pretty much minimum wage. But out here in the Bay you gotta do what you gotta do.
Now I coach at Sobekick in Emeryville.
My passion has always been fitness. I’ve always been active ever since I was young. I played a lot of basketball when I was younger - I even played a little intramural in college. But there’s one thing I learned about playing with teams. When you’re playing basketball, and your teammates don’t help you, and you end up doing all the work and you lose, you feel like crap. So, I ended up looking for something else.
I started training martial arts because it was more “you”…it’s you vs. you. It was an individual sport. Yeah, you have a coach and everything, but you don’t really have teammates to, you know, push you. You have to get motivated yourself.
KO: What’s your history with Kajukenbo and the martial arts as a whole?
ML: I didn’t start off with Kaju at first. I was always kinda…I had ADD when it came to martial arts. I started off in a Korean Martial Art called Kuk Sul Won, and the guy started charging me for belts all the time. I was actually in a car accident, and this guy was still gonna charge me! Then I was like “That’s not for me”.
So I bounced around - I went to Kung Fu, I did some Judo, I did some Krav…but when we would spar (at some of these different schools) I would have to pull my punches and stop at their face. Even then they’d be like “Hey, watch your control.” I was like “But I didn’t even hit him yet.”
Which brings me to Kajukenbo.
I was in Fremont, CA, at this place called S.D.I. (Self Defense Institute), and a gentleman named Ron Esteller was there teaching Kajukenbo on Fridays. I was taking stuff like Krav and Judo, and it was very traditional. And Ron came in with just a shirt and shorts. I was like “What…is this guy a…martial…”
Cause you know you gotta wear the traditional gi and I was like “Who’s this guy wearing shorts and a T-shirt? And what’s Kajukenbo?” I had a couple of friends that practiced with Pallen's (Kajukenbo), so I was kinda intrigued with what it was.
Anyway, the minute Ron and I faced off, the first thing he did was he hit me.
He hit me to the freaking body. I went down, and he looked down, and he goes "Welcome to Kajukenbo!"
And I said "Well, where's your school at and where do I sign?" I was 18. Fast forward 25 years, and I'm still with Ron. And you know what? He never charged me a dime, bro, 'cause I didn’t really have a job back then.
And you know, he's a lot softer these days, but back then he was at the Boy's Club (in San Leandro) the rest of the week, and that place was small - it felt like a little phone booth, and you'd have to really work. It was that old-school Kajukenbo where you left with bruises regularly.
And man, that's what I kinda liked. I...enjoyed getting hit...?
KO: (Laughing.)
ML: ...and feeling pain? Something's wrong with me.
But no, there's something about it because this whole Kajukenbo circle...yeah, we train hard, and hit hard, and beat each other up, but...then we're gonna have a barbecue after. And then we hug after.
We have the traditional aspect, but one thing I loved is it's not like SENSEI SPEAKS: "YOU, MR. LOPEZ, MUST WASH MY CAR..."
It was not like that, so we had barbecues, we had parties, we drank. If you look at Kajukenbo history, you know, some guys would just scrap while they were drunk! But they would have each other's back. It was that family vibe that really drew me to Kajukenbo.
It's a complete martial art, and America's first martial art. Karate, Judo, Jiu-jutsu, Kenpo, and Boxing mixed together...and the art depends on the practitioner. Ron was always like “You know what? Go out and learn from whoever, and bring it back.”
Mickey with Grandmaster Ron Esteller.
That’s another thing I loved about Ron. He was always open-minded. He was never like one of those instructors who’d say “YOU KNOW, MR. LOPEZ, I KNOW EVERYTHING.” He always said “Go out, train, and bring it back.”
Kajukenbo is meant for evolution. You gotta grow. And that’s what I see with MMA these days, but it’s not really Kajukenbo - in a situation like that I’d thumb you in the eye and kick you in the nuts - but then again MMA’s a sport. We deal with sticks, blades, multiple attackers, everything under the sun.
And that’s why I love it. I’m still a student, I’ll forever be a student. There’s always something to learn.
KO: I met you at Sifu Ron’s school years ago. What were you doing before you came back that time?
ML: I was working in San Jose at Fry’s Electronics. Before that even, back in 1994…Jiu-jutsu was hot back then. I knew that getting hit was one thing but I wondered “What happens if I take him to the ground?”
I was training with (Kajukenbo black belt) Jeff Macalolooy, in his garage. He was a wrestler, so I wanted to learn some take downs.
But Michael Jen (a student under Joe Moreira) was my first Brazilian Jiu-jutsu instructor. In 6 months, I was taking down guys, tapping guys out that were 100 pounds more than me, and I was like “Whoa, this Jiu-jutsu is pretty badass.”
The effectiveness of Jiu-jutsu was awesome…UNTIL…I met Dr. John Bono.
I was training the sport aspect of jiu-jutsu. At that time, Grandmaster Bono was teaching at his place in Castro Valley. It was called “Submission Wrestling”. I thought “Huh. Submission wrestling.”
I went over there and said “What’s submission wrestling?" And he got on top of me, and the minute I tried to do a shrimp escape he hit me with an elbow to my thigh and I screamed bro. I said “WHAT the HELL…”
Then one of his other students came in and started hitting me on the ground and he goes “You think Jiu-jutsu is still good?” I said “Man. I don’t want to go to the ground now.” And the thing with Bono is: the more you squirm, the harder he hits you.
That’s another guy that really influenced me.
KO: Where else did you learn?
ML: I had so many video tapes…I was a collector. I would go to Japan Town in the city, get all the Pride fights. I would research as much as I could and see what I could get my hands on.
Later on, I’d go online and find different training partners. I loved everything. I’m sure if I cleaned out my house I could find all my old video tapes. I got stacks of Black Belt magazines, grappling magazines…I was pretty obsessed.
I’m still obsessed.
KO: Does your family train?
ML: My wife, Christie Lopez, was a Taekwondo brown belt in Maui. She was doing that for awhile. I would go to her house, and I’d see her sparring team! patch. And I’d be like “What is that?” And you know what…she does kick hard. I wouldn’t want to get hit by her.
I also have a 5-year-old and an 8-year-old: Journey and Tiffany. Tiffany has been training with Ron, actually, for the past three years. She’s a purple belt. She just competed and won 1st place in her forms, doing Pinon 1 and 2 blended. She did awesome bro. I just can’t explain what it’s like to see my little daughter on the mat. I’m gonna train her a little harder on the sparring next.
Journey on the other hand, is a different personality. She’s on the floor - she kinda goes over the moves and watches her big sister, but every time I tell her to get into an open-leg stance…she’ll just start dancing. When she gets older I think she’ll get into it, because when I just grab her and work with her, her form is perfect. But when I give her a heads up and say “Okay baby, you ready...?" she’ll start dancing.
And when she gets pissed off, she don’t care what you know. She’s just gonna grab your hair and pull you. And you know and I know that the most dangerous people to fight are the ones that don’t know nothing. They’re unpredictable.
You don’t know. Journey might throw a chair at you.
KO: Sounds like Kajukenbo to me.
ML: Exactly.
KO: So, are you worried about either of them in the future? Can they take care of themselves?
ML: You know what? I’m gonna do everything I can to show them what I know. But yeah…they’ll be fine. I think they’re gonna grow up around the arts, just like I did. I hope they stick with it, but I’m trying to get it all into their brains now. Because later on in life, hopefully it’ll just be a reflex.
But the thing is…I just want them to be healthy. And Kajukenbo is a lifestyle. It’s not all about the punches and kicks - it’s about the way you live your life.
I use martial arts every day, mentally bro. Yeah, I teach at Sobekick. I’ve been doing that for the past 3 years. I still have to deal with problems. Tiffany and Journey are gonna have to deal with life struggles as well. Hopefully the martial arts will teach them to say “Okay. This is a hard situation. Now what can we do?”
Honestly, if I didn’t have martial arts in my life bro, I wouldn’t have an outlet to let my stress out. This day and age, everyone out here in the Bay is stressed out with rent, crime…everyone’s working like 3 jobs…we’re just trying to survive. But if I didn’t have an outlet…I don’t know. I would lose my mind.
You can’t force things. You gotta be able to slip, bob and weave, you gotta be able to use a little bit of Aikido and let it all go. Like I said, I use all forms of martial arts. I research, I meditate, learning how to breathe: that’s all martial arts.
And I want them to have that outlet too.
KO: Tell us more about where you're teaching now.
ML: Sobekick is a boxing/kickboxing gym. It's a fitness gym. Our goal is to make you sweat. We teach you boxing techniques, we hit the heavy bag, I do a lot of padwork there.
My purpose in life was always to teach. I was teaching a cardio kickboxing class in San Leandro, which was doing really well. Then I looked online and found an ad for a trainer at a family-owned gym called Sobekick in Emeryville.
I went over there, and I didn't have any certifications or anything, but they didn't care about that. They just wanted to see the energy I had and know if I could teach.
I was like "Hell yeah I could do that. I've been doing it forever".
Ron was always like "Hey man, you need to teach". And I always said "Nah, I wanna work my desk job and get a steady paycheck and blah blah blah..." but you know what? I took the leap of faith, and there was a general manager position that opened up, and now I'm doing it man.
Mickey's "before and after" pic: 2011 (left) and 2018 (right).
I went to school to become a graphic artist, and now I'm managing a gym. I have about 190 members.
Managing is a rough job bro...but you know what? There's members that will come up and say "you're changing my life, you know that, right?"
And that's why I do what I do.
And I really enjoy what I do right now. Twenty years ago, I was behind a desk. Now, I'm in shorts and a T-shirt. It's just kinda funny how sometimes the path chooses you.
KO: How have your thoughts on the martial arts changed over the years?
ML: When I first started martial arts I was learning a whole bunch of stuff...forms, grappling...all that stuff.
It used to be all about respect and whatnot...now with the UFC it's about who talks the most crap. It's about the acting now. And I hate that. I really feel like they're missing the whole bushido/samurai code and all, the respect...
That's why I love Machida, I love Anderson Silva...the people that don't need to say much. But I get it, you have to sell the fights dude, so you gotta run your mouth. But martial arts to me has always been an evolution. It's also what's feeding my family.
I'm one of those guys that'll give it to you for free, 'cause that's what Ron did for me. Like I said, he didn't charge me a dime. All he really cares about is that you represent him, and that's what I'm doing right now. I'm representing Ron and all my other instructors the best I can.
Mickey, Professor Shawn Hayes, and Nicolo '"Nico" Noche.
Scott Ferreira, Michael Jen, John Bono, Jeff Macalolooy, the whole Dragon's Den family, John Hojlo, everybody in our Kajukenbo ohana...I learn from everybody bro. I learn from my daughter. I'm forever a white belt - my cup is always empty.
Also, kids. Kids changed my life bro. I thought I was mean back then...dude, if I have my family with me and something goes down...it's worse. I'm more alert than I've ever been.
KO: You've been talking about "mittology"these days. What is it?
ML: When I first started at Sobekick there was a guy named Luis Lagerman. This was Angelo Dundee's right-hand man. Angelo Dundee was Muhammad Ali's trainer - so I was training with a guy that had trained with the greatest of all time.
When he started hitting mitts with me, we were doing all kinds of stuff. I thought I knew how to box...I didn't know shit. I didn't know a damn thing. But he left an impression on me. When I started doing mitt work, and I started hearing the rhythm, I fell in love with it.
Then I found this guy they call Coach Rick, or the mittologist. I found him online, and he offered a certification in his padwork called mittology. Now, mittology is the (Floyd) Mayweather padwork. What Coach Rick did was he studied the Mayweather padwork and he broke it down.
I was watching his video, and the way his students flow...it's beautiful to watch. It was like art in motion. And I wanted to learn that. As soon as I did, my mittwork went off the charts.
It looks fancy, and people'll say "well, it doesn't look functional". There's a reason Mayweather is 50-0, or whatever his record his: his system works. It's catch and shoot, it's defense, it's offense, it's counters, it's reflexes, it's flow...it's a lot like...Kajukenbo. It's a lot like JKD, it's a lot like Filipino martial arts. Mittology got my knife skills better too. Everyone can hit mitts, but when you work mittology, you realize you're learning both offense and defense all at the same time.
Every instructor that I had in my life molded me in a different way. Ron Esteller fought dirty and gave me that mindset. Scott Fereirra, my JKD coach (under Ron Biliki) put me on some padwork and set that foundation, and made me more of a thinking fighter, more tactical. Michael Jen gave me my Jiu-jutsu. John Bono made me add more strikes to the ground. The mittology just made me flow, and it's still making me flow.
KO: Are there any martial artists/fighters that you look up to?
ML: Manny Pacquiao of course. I mean, there will never be another Filipino boxer in my lifetime that'll make such an impact. Vasyl Lomachenko for his footwork, for his creativity in how he boxes. I believe Hickson Gracie was the man...is the man, still. I could watch his documentary, "Choke", over and over again.
Of course Bruce Lee.
All the old school boxers, like Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler...they don't make fighters like that no more. I like Floyd for his defense, I like Manny for his speed, I like Mike Tyson for his power. There's also that new guy Errol Spence, 'cause he's a southpaw. Paul Vunak - he had a big influence on how I look at street fighting. Guru Dan Inosanto, Bobby Taboada in Balintawak, Professor Shawn Hayes, Eric Paulson, Sensei Chris Nicholas , JT Van...oh, and Coach Rick...and his wife Chica...
Oh! Here's another guy that had a huge influence on me: Roy Harris. Holy crap. That guy was super attentive to detail.
KO: You got a long list.
There are so many out there, I really can't pick off the top of my head.
KO: Do you have any advice for Kajukenbo practitioners or martial artists in general?
ML: Understand the technique, understand the form. Undersand the "why" behind every stance, and every angle, and all the footwork. Don't worry about the belts. Enjoy the journey. If it's hard, take that as a lesson. In martial arts I'm learning a lot more that you can't force things. You really can't, bro. If it's not there, why are you trying to force it?
It's you verses you. I'm gonna learn different from another person. Just enjoy that whole process of asking "Does this work?", "What happens if it doesn't?". Have your cup empty, all the time. Forever be a white belt. Forever be a student. Even when that white belt turns black, that's just the beginning.
And train on your own. Be a "ronin" (in the western sense of the word). Be a student and train in the rain, train in the snow, train in the street, train barefeet, train with shoes on, train with stilettos...that's martial arts there.
Train when you're not comfortable, train when you're tired, train with one arm, train with your kids...Be uncomfortable when you train, because that's how you grow. Train blindfolded, train in the water...out there in Japan, train in the snow, train in the mountains. Train going uphill, train on the steps.
And you know what? Talk about it. Ask your training partner. Say "Hey, how does my form look?" Or film yourself. Because you're gonna look at that film six months from now and be like "Holy crap, now it's way different”.
When I started with Ron I was about 18 at the time. Now I'm 43. And there are certain things that I can or can't do anymore. So another thing I'd tell people about is the art of recovery. The art of healing, massage, foam rolling, epson salt baths, learning how to recover. My body is what feeds my family. For you weekend warriors out there: train hard, and learn how to recover, man.
I've torn my ACL, hurt my collarbone, I didn't tap to a bicep slicer and got that snapped, I was in a car accident - but you know what? When I don't work out, my body hurts. My Kajukenbo, my martial arts is a drug that keeps me going.
I feel stronger now than I did when I was younger. We're like wine - we get better with age. I see guys like Dan Inosanto, and they're fast. And as they get older, the movements get smaller. That's what's cool. Think about how many repetitions they're doing with that same move to reach perfection. There's no secret to just hours and hours and hours of mat time.
If you try to get around that, you’ll be exposed. You’ll be exposed if you’re doing Pinon 1 and you can’t do a horse stance, or your front stance isn’t low, or you’re dropping your hands when you punch.
Social media gives you a voice even if you’re a fake. And some people will buy in to it. They’ll listen to all these George Dillman knockout guys. Good thing is, they’re all exposed now 'cause you’ll have an mma guy go in there and knock one of 'em out. Like that kiai guy (Yanagi Ryuken). Remember him?
Yeah, that wasn’t a good day for him.
Listen to other people with different stories. Go to the cops, and if they'll tell you, listen to what they say. Listen to the war veterans.
Dude, there's so much to learn, all around you.
Watch kids that are disabled and think about...that. When you're tired, when you're feeling like shit...go to the Oakland Children's Hospital and look at the cancer ward. Are you really tired? Is your life really that bad?
Over there by Ron's school there's a physical rehab center. And these kids...they're paralyzed bro. I walk around, we walk around, we're jumping around punching...those kids would love to punch and kick and roll around on the ground, or at least do Kata 1.
Every once in awhile people are like "I hate my life!" and these kids can't even get into a car without help. Every time I go to the Pleasanton dojo, I see that and I ask "Is my life really bad?"
Learn from the world. Learn what you have.
Check out Mickey's classes at Sobekick: 6460 Hollis St., Emeryville, Ca, 94608. For more information contact Mickey Lopez at (510) 858-5051 or via email at mickey@sobekick.com.